Selby Mbenenge, the judge president of the Eastern Cape who faces sexual harassment allegations, has stated to the tribunal that he was pursuing an affair with Andiswa Mengo, the judge’s secretary.
Mbenenge stated this during his testimony before the tribunal in Sandton on Monday.
Advocate Muzi Sikhakhane, his legal counsel, dug into the WhatsApp texts that were sent back and forth between the two.
According to Mengo’s version, Mbenenge sent pictures of his private part to Mengo and said, “Yours, please”.
However, Mbenenge denied ever sending any private part pictures to the Mengo.
“I never sent any part of my body to her,” he said.
He acknowledged that the conversations took place because he was pursuing a romantic relationship with Mengo.
We were flirting
“These chats did take place… and I must admit, they were flirtatious. It had become a flirtatious relationship; I wanted to have a romantic relationship with the complainant (Mengo),” he said.
He further said he would never remember anything that was exchanged between Mengo and himself, but the records have been helpful to him.
He stated that his chats with Mengo emanated from a discussion they had at her chambers.
Correcting a narrative he labelled as wrong, Mbenenge said the pictures he commented on were sent to him by Mengo.
“When I asked for pictures, she said she lost them, but she will take more. When I asked for her to take a few, she said, ‘Will do’.”
“The response was not that she didn’t want to share these pictures with me. She asked if I’d wanted them now, apologised and said she was still at the gym. And she winked at me,” Mbenenge added.
She was happy to interact
When Sikhakhane asked him what he understood about the wink, Mbenenge said he saw someone who was happy to interact with him in this manner.
“She was happy with what we were talking about because winking is flirtatious,” he responded.
According to Mbenenge, Mengo would send pictures to him and then later delete them.
“There’s a picture she sent, and I said, ‘wow’, but she deleted it. This was in admiration. “I then said, ‘Take off your top garment’, and she responded she will try later,” said Mbenenge.
He stated that he does not have a doctorate in emojis; however, he understood the winking emojis to be flirtatious.
“I am a Xhosa man. I know of something called ‘ukumutsa’. When you show interest in a lady and they don’t look you in the eye, they look down. When someone covers their eyes like this, to me as a Xhosa man, it is flirtatious. When I checked the definition of ukumutsa, and Google said it is when a woman pretends to be shy to a man,” he explained.
When asked about the topic of money that Mengo brought up in their conversation, he said he doesn’t want to accuse Mengo of being a money monger.
“I don’t want to accuse her of being a money monger, beyond saying this is a flirtatious conversation. I don’t see that as a rebuff, it is transactional, and it is part of a flirtation,” he said.
Chat between consenting adults
Sikhakhane asked why Mbenenge asked Mengo to delete the conversations.
“I have already addressed that this was a chat between two consenting adults, so the public being privy to it was going to be embarrassing. She said I shouldn’t worry. She gave me an assurance that this was going to be something between the two of us, and I never saw this day coming,” he said.
Mbenenge told the tribunal that Mengo asked for a hug.
“And I said as long as it won’t generate warmth. This after she had an altercation with the court manager. The warmth was in the context of flirting. I said she must declare upfront if it would generate warmth, and she said some things are better unsaid; we will see when it happens.
“The what if we melt was in the sensual context. In the context of two adults, a male and female, hugging chest to chest, one thing may lead to another. We spoke about deleting the chats, and we agreed, so this was wanted.”
